Sparked my an interview of Norman Cook recently and talking to a local dj yesterday, I was wondering what are your thoughts on djing with vinyl, cds and software in terms of visual appearance of the djing performing and the way they play the music and create interesting sets.



Norman way staying that he just uses vinyl and has only once touched a cd. I really enjoy seeing a dj play with vinyl such a Norman, as the dj is always busy behind the decks, especially Norman who seems to have gone beyond just being a dj behind decks with the use of palookavision.



I think cd however is much better in terms of what you can actually do with the record, for example I really love seeing but mainly listening to Erick Morillio and other house djs layering loops from many different tracks, creating wicked new bootlegs. But I?m not sure that a dj behind cd decks visually is as interesting to watch mix.



The thing I like about the use of software such as Ableton is that there are so many possibilities to play, edit and manipulate tracks, and the djing using it always seems to sound fantastic. However I think the limitation of this is that it can be quite boring to watch a dj just using a laptop and midi controller.



Another reason I have asked about your opinion of the use of different formats is because myself and Chemicalfan are hopefully playing a local bar over the summer in our area using mainly Ableton. The trouble is that the majority of the people who go to the bar are rock/indie kids and do not appreciate dance music or djing, therefore I?m anxious that people maybe critical of the use of Ableton because they do not know the potential of this. Other that playing a mixture of music I?m not sure how I can really make a set with this visually exciting. Maybe we will try and use a mixture of formats making it more entertaining. Any ideas, maybe Im looking to far into it, more so that the people will at the bar?

I don't know a lick about djing, but even someone from my perspective can see the benefits and downfalls of each of the mediums you brought up.



I suppose djing will always (to me) mean people fiddling around and working the magic with vinyl, that's how it was for years and years - but on the other hand the cd and software approach open up all kinds of possibilities. cd djing sounds great and offers some flex for the person behind the decks.



From a crowd going perspective, I think the software approach is the least exciting. This is not a put down at all and I don't mean it as such. All 3 approaches are like 3 variations on the same musical instrument, like I was saying each have their perks... But I've seen all three approaches and the software one, while great sounding mix wise, is about as exciting as watching my husband play games on the computer (with me not being able to see the screen). Using something tangible, something you can hold such as vinyl or cd would make for a better show.



It would be cool to see you and chemicalfan juggle all 3 elements into the set somehow.

Cheers for the response whirly. I know exactly what you mean by useing somthing tangible such as a record, It just makes the performace look so much more real and not as if it has been prerecored. I thought about useing a synth of some sort to give more of a live feel or mixing between vinyl and software as Richie Hawtin does. Another option is to have some sort of visuals playing on the screens in the bar.

I have turntables but really need someone to show me the ropes, got so far with it but lost interest :-|.



If I'm off work I'll come down and see you guys whichever!! 8)

my two pence worth...



forget about the visual aspect of djing....if the musics good then people will dance....at least they *should*



personally I'm not arsed about having a dj waving records about and jumping about like a loon but it's good if they look interested. I always worry about dj's that never look up at the crowd. I think a good dj should be making eye contact with people, looking round the room....maybe smiling every so often?....



formats....

there's no difference between somebody using cdj's, using vinyl or a laptop with ableton/serato/MS word/pacman.....at the end of the day you're selecting music and making it work together....the most of important thing, for me anyway is the selecting bit....



I guess a guy stooped behind a laptop does look *a little* like he's checking his e-mails but if what's coming out sounds good to people then they'll dance surely?...I certainly fucking do



what about the venues where you can't really see the booth?...you can't see what the dj's doing....maybe you two could put a sheet in front of the booth like ol' kenny dixon jr?....only kidding



mips and I use turntables, CD's and a lappy cus we're big show offs....no seriously......there are two of us and we wanted to try and do something different/a bit extra....do little cut-ups...play our own tracks off CD and get less back ache....and quite frankly we're not amazing dj's in the smoother than sasha beatmixing bubbles sort of way... we concentrate on the music we play and the way we play it....



each format has it's merits.....if I were you acidchildren I'd pick what suits you. if you're both really happy playing off ableton then do it....if you're worried about what people will think then why don't you take a small bag of vinyl and slap one on every now and then?.....get a few BBC sound fx records from the charity shop and whip them over the tracks coming from ableton?....or how about an acapella over something from the lappy?



bars are slightly different I know.....people do tend to come and poke about, tell you that you should be playing r&b, look through your records or ask if "they can have a go"....but if you're rocking it then they won't be fussed, they'll be dancing..



sorry if that all sounds a bit confused.....typed it as it came out. my point is don't get caught up in the debate about "CD/Vinyl/Ableton"...if other people do then fair enough.....just pick the right tool for the job and what suits you....at the end of the day it's all about the music...if other people are bothered by it then that's their problem.....concentrate on making em dance :D



m'chebne

mc marsh Escribi�:

I have turntables but really need someone to show me the ropes, got so far with it but lost interest :-|.

the best bit of advice I can give you is:



1

keep at it



2

buy 'how to dj properly' by bill brewster & frank broughton. it's a fantastically well written book with loads of detail about the technical side of djing as well as building a collection....working a room (oooh er!) and all the rest of it...the erm, spiritual side of djing etc :)



trust me....crackin' book



I'm going to make my dinner now

About using Ableton :

I think what you can do with Ableton sound very good, and I don't think it will be boring at all...

What you could do is using a VJing software to entertain people. Arkaos is a good one. You can ReWire it with Ableton and if you get a lot of videos it can be cool. You can control it with Ableton or with a MIDI Controller. It's not so hard to use and to understand, the only thing is you have to have good video material.



About CDs Vinyl and Software : so far I only used software ... It's a good thing for begginers and when you have no money to buy turntables. With CDs, that's true you can do much more (you just have to watch Zabiela's stuff to understand that...), and with the VDJ X1 you can scratch video, you can do many things... Just watch Coldcut, it's awesome. Vinyls are good for the show : some DJs have excellent skills and it's just impressive to see them. DJ Kentaro, Birdy Nam Nam, RJD2... They kick asses.

On the Ableton thing, most Ableton sets are either boring to watch but great to dance to or interesting to watch but crap to dance to. You see these guys using effect after effect, doing the beat repeat thing, flying through 1 track a minute and using loads of acapellas. But who wants to dance to that? And then you see the guy doing an inspired set with impeccable mixing, great flow, great track selection. But he's staring at a screen and you can't see what he's doing, so you feel a bit weird dancing to a guy staring at a screen...



On the upside, Ableton gives producers the chance to release stuff in a 4-track or 8-track format and have it played. This is where it will get interesting, and where Ableton will shine IMO. This type of thing will be great for different versions of tracks being played, or even just for mixing. And the possibilities for tasteful on the fly remixing will be massive. You'll no longer be scared of completely wrecking a track with that flanger, cause you're only flanging the vocal. Or you're only cutting the bass from the bassline, but the kick drum is still kicking. And if new controllers keep getting made specifically for Ableton, and more and more people push the envelope with what they can do with the controllers, the visual aspect will inevitably return.



Vinyl or CDs? Does it really still matter to anyone? CDs are mainly used so people can drop their own bootlegs and remixes, or to try out their new productions. A 30c CD is much cheaper than cutting a dubplate. I know a few guys that mostly use CDs, but use vinyl for those special moments when a classic track just has to be dropped. This is definitely the way it has to move, with more and more people releasing to mp3.

I'd just like to say thanks to M'Chebne - really useful inspiring words typed there, thanks mate!



To spur the debate a little...

I'm only confident on CDs really, I don't have any vinyl at all, and my Ableton experience is limited to the Chemically Imbalanced mixing sessions - not the best times! :x

I feel I could learn Ableton sufficiently to play live though, we'll see. But CD's are what I've used since I started, and although my mixing is like sandpaper, I know my limitations and it's natural. It's what I learnt on, and it's comfortable. Kinda weird, as I'm sure 95% of the world learn on vinyl, but I didn't as I had no access to vinyl without shelling out loads of cash. Plus the CD burning is cheap & easy as Afro said - I can drop a track or two that I've written as easily as other material.

Thank you everybody for your usefull and helpfull words.



Im quite confident with practice that I can put together an intersting and complex set useing Ableton that will keep people entertained muscially, with a tune selection that appeals to those who like indie music. Im going to aim to use as many different samples as possible that people will recognise, but I will also avoid over doing it and rushing through the tracks.



The idea of taking a turntable and dropping a few accapellas and sound effects sounds good, hopefully this will make the crowd appreciate what Im doing more. Think I will have a look in the charity shops for some records and sounds that are not herd often.



I think my long term plan is to buy a set of cdjs and efx, then use them with ableton taking the best of both formats.

Aswell as Zabiela doing his cdj and efx thing you have people like Jon Lisle using 3 (plus) cdjs for made phasing tricks and his own sounds from a midi keyboard (check bedrock os_2 - at some points five tracks are playing thanks to denon cdjs).



Just go with the flow and use all the tools you have cd and Ableton. You say the crowds more indie so dropping the indie sample over your regular tunes like you said Acid gives them something recognisable to pull them in. Above all enjoy it and don't try mixing abba and rancid while coming up when all you wanna play is house :-//

[quote name="matty303"]Aswell as Zabiela doing his cdj and efx thing you have people like Jon Lisle using 3 (plus) cdjs for made phasing tricksquote] should be mad - why is there no edit option here?

[quote name="matty303"]

matty303 Escribi�:

Aswell as Zabiela doing his cdj and efx thing you have people like Jon Lisle using 3 (plus) cdjs for made phasing tricksquote] should be mad - why is there no edit option here?

Welcome to 2002...

That's what I use to post on this forum :

Yeah i agree matty, Zabiela is quality, I love seeing him cut up the beats with his effects box. I have got a few tunes that have been remixed that I intend to possibly play:



Nivana - 'Smells like teen spirit' Adam Freeland remix



The White Stripes - 'Severn Nation Army' Adam Freeland remix or Tim Deluxe remix



Frans Ferdinand - 'Do you want to' Erol Alkan remix



Gorillaz - 'Dare' DFA remix



Gorillaz - 'Dirty Harry' Jon Carter remix



Intending to throw in some cross over tracks such as Soulwax, LCD soundsystem, Tiga, Prodigy as well as playing some acid house, breaks and electro house, all in about an hour!

You forgot the chems :o

Ben_j Escribi�:

You forgot the chems :o

Yeah dropping some chems tracks goes without needing to say, EBW7, Nude Night. HBHG, OOC could all easily feature.

ACIDCHILDREN Escribi�:

Ben_j Escribi�:

You forgot the chems :o

Yeah dropping some chems tracks goes without needing to say, EBW7, Nude Night. HBHG, OOC could all easily feature.

Erol Alkan remix of 'Believe' could fit into that sort of set too, I reckon.

EBW 7 ? Are you sure they will apreciate ? :p

Darkstarexodus Escribi�:

ACIDCHILDREN Escribi�:

Ben_j Escribi�:

You forgot the chems :o

Yeah dropping some chems tracks goes without needing to say, EBW7, Nude Night. HBHG, OOC could all easily feature.

Erol Alkan remix of 'Believe' could fit into that sort of set too, I reckon.

8O Yeah! thats a great idea! Its alot more rocky sounding then the original.