Hey.

I don't know where to begin. I guess firstly, it's obvious that niether of the brothers are keen on recreational drugs, i get the feeling they once were, but i get a very strong vibe these days from them in interviews etc. that they don't... condone it?

secondly, why should that even matter? I am my own person etc. etc. just because i like their music doesn't mean i should adopt their personal beliefs, i have much more of a problem with people and their inapropriate use of alcohol than some illicit drugs.

thirdly the point of this thread:

I like weed. every now and then, not too often. on the weekend, and the only reason i EVER smoke is before I listen to music. there is no doubt that weed makes music sound "different". and this is something I love, i can focus on elements i don't usually focus on, i can have a listen to some of my favourite music from a slightly different perspective, please note, i do not mean it is better when I am high, i mean it is different

that is an important part of music for me, to be able to fully take in an album, i like to hear it in different situations, states of mind etc. It inspires me, it evokes creativity, and it helps me learn more about the music, (as i say, minor details i may not usually pay attention to, stand out to me in an altered state)

where am I going with this?

Over the years, in debuts of other albums of other bands I love, i always come down to this one dilemma, on first listen, should i be high? there have been some times where it has been an amazing experience, aS not only am I listening from a not-so-familiar state, but it's also COMPLETELY unknown terrain, making it very very exciting.

Me and all my friends have a listening party planned, with a nice 42 inch screen for the DVD and some nice studio monitors to listen to Further on for the first time. I can't decide if i want it to be unveiled to me in a sober state, or... well you know.


Advice? stories? similar feelings? I know this is a lame thread, but i've been thinking about it for a while.

the only previous time I have been faced with this prediciment for a chems album was for WATN, and i made the choice to listen sober, Fuck man, it may end up just being a different means to the same end.

maybe i am being superstitios, but i dunno. i just would hate for the drugs on first listen to somehow ruin the album for me in the future.

flame on.

I consider drugs to be useful as long as you're using them intentionally. Recreational use of substances, that is to say, for "fun," doesn't seem to lead to fruitful explorations, only accidental ones. Those accidental stumblings on meaningful, altered states of mind, however, are to be valued; drawing a meaningful conclusion or realization about your life and that which exists around you is an achievement no matter what steps you took to get there.

But you should realize that to take drugs lightly without fully considering the possibilities and uses for exploring alternate states of mind is a waste. It's not a waste when the right intention is there--there's nothing wrong with using substances in order to understand art from different perspectives.

Just keep in mind that one need not use substances each and every time one would like to explore music, and further, when one fully understands that state of mind achieved on various substances, using the substance to get to that place ceases to be a necessity.

Thank you for your input.

I agree with all that you have said. I should say I am leaning towards smoking before the first listening/viewing, just can't fully commit.

also, lol @ me taking it so seriously when it's just a bit of greenleaf.


on a complete side note, what you have said, madpooter, brings me back to that idea of taking LSD... i know it's something that i DEF want to experience one day. but i have been so afraid to do so, i'm a cautious person, but it's something i know I want to do. ... one day i might "pass the test"

I haven't passed the test either, and I'm convinced that it will come along for me to try when I need to try it. If you're going to do that one, definitely take the proper precautions, e.g., don't do it alone or get a "babysitter."

It's just fine to take any substance seriously, btw. I had some mescal recently and it was definitely a different drunk for me than other alcohols.

The only drug I've ever done and will ever do is weed (unless you consider drinking using drugs) and even so I barely ever do it.

Honestly, I have more of a problem with people who say you can only listen to electronic music on hard drugs as if the only way to tolerate it is to be hallucinating out of your mind.

This is not a lame thread at all sir_badge. This is a topic that hits close to home for me.

To be up front - drugs almost destroyed my marriage and killed my husband. It was a slow downward spiral veiled with "moderation is 'key'" bullshit that lasted years and years, so much so that I bought it hook line and sinker. And eventually the spiral brought my family to its knees at the gates of hell... There were a lot of realizations and things are much better now - some of you who know my husband know that he's currently pursuing an education and career in the recovery realm. Thank God we're all different, and that hopefully none of you would have to go through what my family or my husband did. Because it's just fucking horrible beyond words, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone not even my worst enemy.

Now for me, I'm neither a drug addict or an alcoholic. I could take them or leave them. A little pot never bothered me. Taking e never bothered me. It really doesn't matter to me either way because it was just one in a series of experiences. I never took them to be "spiritual" and I personally think anyone that uses that lame ass excuse to take drugs so they sound smarter are just fooling themselves. Just admit you take drugs for fun and personal satisfaction. What you get out of it as Pooter says, is accidental, and leave it at that. Me, I've had more than my fair share of fun and exploits, and there's some days where I wouldn't mind hitting a club and getting wrecked. But for me it was just time to be done, I've had enough, and that's that.

So. Given my experience, it would be mindless for me to condone drug taking of any kind, however it's really none of my business and I don't care what people do - if they aren't hurting anyone and if they feel they can gain something from it who am I to stop them? It is such a very personal matter, when it boils down to it. Which is part of the reason why it's so taboo.

androidgeoff, on 16 May 2010 - 10:24 AM, said:

Thank you!! And Amen.

When it's all said and done - long after the night is over - the best, most lasting thing you walk away with is the music. That's the most important thing, in my opinion.

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles you and your family have gone through wirly. i definitely did not mean to stir up bad times. sorry.

must stress that the music is of course always more important than the state of mind, i know that, and believe it.\

for me, and we are all different, i like to experience music both ways, and yeah, i guess that is a selfish notion. but i can live with it.

No need to apologize at all sir_badge. :)

I really think there is no one specific way to listen to music. When you're done listening, you either enjoyed it or you didn't. How you arrived to that point is personal and an excercise in freedom of choice.

I just hope the end result -the destination - for you and everyone including myself - is that the music is enjoyed. It suppose when all is said and done it doesn't really matter how we all got there... Whether we'll have gotten there in one piece after having out minds blown remains to be seen. ;)

I have found that I really can enjoy music and movies in a different way now.

I spent quite a few years messing about on a regular basis with weed, hash, pills and on occasion coke, speed and lsd. LSD I haven't taken in years and although I do get the urge from time to time to maybe try it 'just one more time'(I've taken it only twice), it really doesn't bother me that I don't.

Weed I've haven't been habitual with in nearly two years and haven't smoked now in 8 months, but the inclination to 'dabble' again sometimes hits pretty hard, particularly when I'm lying in bed listening to music before going to sleep.

Pills are now an occasional treat, I find that I like them less and less the day after, and I don't feel that they improve my life in any way whatsoever, but I enjoy the short-term buzz they give me and the feeling of connection and empathy with others that is delivered.

On both of the last counts I would still feel occasion to use but I have come to realise over the last year and a half that I can achieve that particular state of mind by will alone now, without the use of a catalyst. I can drift off into a world of wonderland lying in my bed listening to a CD or I can bounce off my feet for hours on end at a festival and still feel that connection between myself and those around me. A little alcohol may be involved in that last part.

I do see where you're coming from Sir_Badgelot, there are many albums and shows that I have found far more amazing, in that I find a new way of listening to them, with a little Mary-Jane. (At this point I would like to recommend The Knife's Live DVD, a big screen TV with surround sound and no lights on in the room with a good smoke)
I've stopped near all use of any of these substances now, I don't feel I need them in my life. I do however take pleasure in reminding myself, when the opportunity presents itself, of the stage of my life I'm leaving behind.

I refuse to become a habitual user again but I don't think I'll ever turn it down flat, so long as my responsibilities don't over-rule, which they truly will as time moves on.

So, on that note, I would suggest you listen to the album over the course of a week or two before you spark up to it. I really do think that it's a re-discovery experience rather than a break-in one.

"Ever seen a $20 bill?....Ever seen a $20 bill...on weed?!"

Chem O, on 17 May 2010 - 04:38 AM, said:

I like that. and thats probably what i was trying to say all along, i just couldn't find the words. that is the reason i didn't do it for WATN, however i can't help feel regret for NOT doing it before WATN for the first time. Chances are i will regret which ever desicion i make, because thats the kind of idiot i am.

Badge, you aren't an idiot. Jeez why are you so hard on yourself?

I know it's easier said than done but don't regret something that hasn't happened yet! I am sure no matter what route you choose, your first Further listening experience will be really great in some way. And it seems you are the type of person who has an open minded sense of detail, I have no doubt each listen thereafter will reveal new things you might not have heard the first time. The great thing about Chems album is that we all can listen to their son gs or an album later on and we might hear something we didn't catch the first million times we heard it. I'm looking forward to reading what you (and everyone else) has to say about the album once it's out.

Each to their own everybody.Why is it that alcohol is so readily accepted in a social sense when the damage it causes (health, violence,personality change,cost to hospitals, etc etc) far outweighs that caused as a result of drug use?And remember another thing,there is no such thing as an "expert", only people with opinions.And quite often they are wrong.See the current global financial crisis.Dont remember any of those "experts" cautioning restraint before all that blew off.

I only drink...
I had roommates who began smoking pot very, very often. They were obnoxious, and I know this really isn't how one should smoke pot. It seemed like such a waste--they would light up, start watching a movie, and fall asleep every time before the movie was over, leaving my TV, DVD player, etc. on. I came to really hate them. So I have a negative view of the substance, even though I understand that it can be used correctly. My favorite celebrity, Sarah Silverman, does pot, but she has a motto: MIAT (Make It A Treat). In some ways she has begun turning my opinion of weed back to a neutral/positive stance.

Anyways, in light of these convictions, I would say that listening to Further sober would be the best. Or maybe a few puffs, per following MIAT.

Aw, man. What a waste. I love to get a little stoned and go biking for hours on end. F*CK YES.

I only drink too. Sometimes too much, but I don't like to be sober at a gig. I've also taken some speed once, before an Aphex Twin gig (it was on the 4th day of Dour festival. I was kind of tired by the 3 previous day and the energy drinks weren't doing the trick anymore). It worked pretty well.
I'd like to try LSD one day, but I'm not attracted by any other drugs and I don't intend to try any.

I don't have any "experience" with the subject, but I'd just like to chime in with what opinions I have as long as the discussion's open. I don't like to judge those who use drugs, and I can see from some of your posts that you have fairly moderate, healthy relationships with them. As such I'd personally condone whatever "enhanced experience" you're looking for with Further, Badge (be it on the first listen or at a later point) - albeit with one caveat. If you're going to try watching the film "Under The Influence", I would not do it with LSD, despite your evident curiosity. If I were ever going to try something, that would not be it. I practically have a phobia of the drug and all drugs like it, for one simple reason: you don't know what's going to happen! It could be the greatest moment of your life or it could be something terrible that haunts you for years. And the inclusion of deliberately trippy music and visuals would only complicate the matter more, especially with an album like Further. And that's where a bit of personal experience comes in: from what I heard of the album, it's mostly mellow and (I would assume) trip-friendly. But there's a sudden change in momentum from the docile "Dissolve" into "Horsepower". That song (and its accompanying visuals) are pretty dark to begin with; I can only imagine what they'd be like to someone made so susceptible to external stimuli as a person taking acid. You may regret it.
Seacrest out.

I'm looking at that big mess of I wrote before and I am sorry if I came across as sanctimonious or prude in any way. The not-too-distant past is still pretty fresh, and I let the negative experience of a loved one's addiction override what should have been a less judgmental approach to this topic. It can be hard not to put a face to a subject such as this.

Overall my own personal and bodily experience with being under the influence has been fairly positive and even good. I'm not a stranger to this - but I've not been in a situation recently that would lend itself to using drugs or drinking heavily. Those who've known me over the years on this board and those who have, erm... partied with me in the past, know that it's just not like me to pass judgment on people who use drugs recreationally. I really don't think there's any one way to listen to and enjoy music, and I really have no direct advice on what to do either way. So once again if I came across as self righteous, I apologize.

Whirly, you didn't.

your first post was unbelievably fair and even handed, especially coming from someone who has been in the position that you have.

not many people would still have that same open mindedness, or understanding after such a bad experience. that is to be applauded.


CHAMPINESS, there is absolutely no way i will be dropping acid before watching this, and probably wont be dropping acid for another 20 years or so. i too am very scared of it. weed though... it's no thang. i'll just see what happens on the night.

thanks for advice guys.

That's really quite a relief. I wish you the best of times at your listening party!

truly nize topic...


on my hand i gotta say marijuana changed my life during my 17s - 19s
the first time i smoked it i felt something huge changed inside me... later i used to smoke twice a month

first times i was amazed by the textures, sounds from the velcro stuff, music and winamp milkdrop's visualisations, FOOD! (ice creams used to melt myself)...
but later on i started to insight and see what was happening inside me
thoughts and thoughts flowing through my head... i realized there was something else than that, than just thinking... so i started to control the thoughts and here i am...

its a fun plant to have fun, enjoy urself and other ppl, always good company (srsly the company affects the experience) and remember b4 smokin' u r going to feel more receptive


btw i've never tried LSD yet... but i know there'll be a time