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*coughcough* Back to PTB......



An interesting thing I noticed when listening to PTB with my girl is, as mentioned elsewhere, the relative lack of musical layers when compared with earlier Chems albums. Where when I recently listened very closely to Surrender and discovered a number of new instruments and sounds I'd never heard before, I heard comparatively few new instruments or sounds while listening to PTB closely. (I did hear a synth I'd missed during 'Believe', but not too much else.)



However, that's not to say I noticed nothing interesting about the album. Rather than layering sounds and instruments into an intricate web, Tom & Ed seem to have taken a much greater interest in texture. In particular, panning and manipulating the sound stage seem to be the predominant method of adding variety and interest to tracks.



As I discussed with my girl, in previous albums it seemed as though 10 (okay, this is an absolutely arbitrary number, but 10, okay?) layers were brought into and out of the mix to create a track. On PTB, it feels more like only 4 or 5 layers, but they are moved around subtly (well, not ALWAYS subtly) to create that full impression. This is why tracks like 'Close Your Eyes' and 'Hold Tight London' have that ability to make your heart, mind, and soul swoon: because the sound is literally moving around you, engulfing you, swallowing you (as opposing to head-on blowing you away, or the multi-directional implosion/explosion that I might describe DYOH, for example).



Either way, PTB continues the excellent sound quality of Chems releases that we've come to take for granted. Their mixes just seem "fuller" than most other music I listen to. I liken it to a colour palette, such as with a video card on a computer. Some crappily produced acts seem to be operating in 16 colours, your average act might have 128 colours, a top album might have 1,028 colours, the Chems are at 16 million. While the lesser albums get across the impression of full sound, it doesn't quite FEEL the same, like bits are chopped out.



The Chems seem to use almost every frequency out there, with such a wide and colourful sound that it feels alive and vital. I don't often hear that in albums I listen to.

That is an intresting way of looking at it , and i have to say , i discoverd the same. Whenever i listen to The Test , i STILL discover new sounds. That song , especially in the end , i SO layerd...like Star Guitar aswell. Just some examples. I still discover new songs. But at PTB , everything sounds more "Flat" , especially Shake Break Bounce. Well no i said it wrong, I DOESNT sound flat , it still sounds full , but it is more flat. So i dunno what kind of treatment they gave it to make it still sound "16 Million" ;) But i love PTB , i never felt like it's less good that the previous albums or whatever. I ABSOLUTLY LOVE IT.

Absolutely. I'm discovering more and more how good PTB is. I really recommend if possible that everyone listen to PTB on a proper surround sound system, or a good car setup to appreciate the pan and sound staging. In my car, which is a tiny little sports car with a decent though far from spectacular system, the sound feels cavernous and huge, but rather than coming from all directions as in the past, there is a distinct centre to most tracks that moves around in an almost disorienting fashion.



For DYOH in particular, it seemed as though the main beat occupied the centre of the mix and sound stage while all hell broke loose around it. Come With Us is very similar to this, as well, in my opnion.



With PTB, the centre of the mix isn't necessarily at the centre of the sound stage and this has a very important effect, again in my opinion, on how the album feels and sounds. With this in mind and looking in retrospect, I think 'Pioneer Skies' on CWU was maybe a hint at PTB, as it takes this approach.



As for 'Shake Break Bounce', while it's still a very enjoyable track, it seems to be lacking that extra "something" that sets Chems tracks apart. At least for me. While by no means a poor track (I actually do like it), it kinda stands out like a sore thumb on PTB.

Wow, Darkstar, I really liked what you had to say about Push The Button, the textures and layers within the record being less in-your-face sonically (for lack of a better term) than say the sonic landscapes of Dig Your Own Hole - aptly described by you as "...the main beat occupied the centre of the mix and sound stage while all hell broke loose around it."



I have to say there's a lot that's been said that I agree with, and I really like how you describe the subtleties in Close Your Eyes and Hold Tight London as being songs that engulf and swallow the listener. That is very much how I feel when I listen to Hold Tight London, like that song is wrapping itself around me. And like someone said shortly before Push The Button was released... he described the song as a sort of slow energy moving throughout your entire body.



I totally agree that with this album, less is more (to a certain extent) and the subtleties - such as panning helping to create this "fullness" for instance - are pure genius because of the way they build up intensity within the framework of the songs. How the Chems were able to create music that's freer, closer and wilder while employing (sometimes) subtle sonic textures that have such a big impact *without* being overly bombastic... Yeah... I think I've run out of steam here. X-D The thoughts are there but my brain is moving at a much faster rates than my fingers are able to type!

A precursor to this work with panning is found in 'The Best Part of Breaking Up' from Loops of Fury EP. Around 4:30 into the track, the beats very unsubtly, but with great effect, shift left-right-left-right-etc. It's very unsettling and trippy. I imagine I would throw up if very drunk and listening to the track at loud volumes in my car (as a passenger, of course, considering I'd be drunk in this hypothetical situation :D )

Nice how you brought up the unsettling and trippy aspects of the music.



I find the word "disoriented" springs to mind when describing either a song with a lot coming at you from all directions, and a certain response I have to such a song. For instance I think Dig Your Own Hole is a very disorienting album, it's sensory overload, it's bombastic in texture and overall execution of the tracks. There is little else in my music collection that can touch on the same feelings that album produces, and I love it so. I love that head fuck feeling the Chems provide with their music - like I've said before, I don't know how they do it but they know what they're doing! X-D



And like I said before in other threads, I think the Chems have already achieved music wise and melody wise - and they seem to be honing in on their production skills which to me, seems like a very natural progression of things for these already accomplished musicians. And if you listen to each record in order from Exit to Push, you can really hear how far they've come with their production skills, how much they've matured in that aspect. I really think it's how they have reached a point where they can produce a song that has some of these gentle subtleties, yet at the same time have the songs with that quality be textured enough so as the impact is more up front. Everything is so clean and crisp sounding with their later works...

"Head fuck" is the perfect phrase for DYOH, Whirly!



Comparing tracks like 'Believe' to, using as an example because I listened to it today, 'The Best Part Of Breaking Up', I see these as very similar songs in approach (kitchen-sink arrangement, sensory overload, elements coming in and out of the mix, etc.). While I love TBPOBU, the sound quality and production values on 'Believe' are unbelievable (bwah! :D ) and in a different class.



It would almost be interesting to hear the Chems remix DYOH using the skills and techniques they've acquired over the past 8 years (yeah, it's been that long!!!). Can you imagine It Doesn't Matter with crazy panning of the bassline?!?!?! }:-) }:-) }:-) It would feel like riding a rollercoaster in complete blackness except for crazy strobe lights and lasers while God himself pounds drums. }:-) (!)



Actually, that's kinda what Coachella felt like. 8O

Darkstarexodus Escribi�:

Comparing tracks like 'Believe' to, using as an example because I listened to it today, 'The Best Part Of Breaking Up', I see these as very similar songs in approach (kitchen-sink arrangement, sensory overload, elements coming in and out of the mix, etc.). While I love TBPOBU, the sound quality and production values on 'Believe' are unbelievable (bwah! :D ) and in a different class.

Oops, meant Get Up On It Like This...

Darkstarexodus Escribi�:

"Head fuck" is the perfect phrase for DYOH, Whirly!



Comparing tracks like 'Believe' to, using as an example because I listened to it today, 'The Best Part Of Breaking Up', I see these as very similar songs in approach (kitchen-sink arrangement, sensory overload, elements coming in and out of the mix, etc.). While I love TBPOBU, the sound quality and production values on 'Believe' are unbelievable (bwah! :D ) and in a different class.



It would almost be interesting to hear the Chems remix DYOH using the skills and techniques they've acquired over the past 8 years (yeah, it's been that long!!!). Can you imagine It Doesn't Matter with crazy panning of the bassline?!?!?! }:-) }:-) }:-) It would feel like riding a rollercoaster in complete blackness except for crazy strobe lights and lasers while God himself pounds drums. }:-) (!)



Actually, that's kinda what Coachella felt like. 8O

What I really like about Believe, especially after hearing it live, is how dense the song is yet it doesn't have the same textural opaqueness as - for example - Sunshine Underground or Private Psychedelic Reel. What I mean is, it doesn't have layer upon layer of sound, but there's this fullness to the song, lots of room to play with (especially live). It's almost as though a lot of elements with this song as well as others off Push The Button are brought to the forefront then pulled back, then brought up front again. In my opinion it gives the listener the idea of the tightness of a song, yet there's a wide open reverance feel at the same time. Tight production skills indeed. I'm probably not making any sense! X-D



Anyway, it would be interesting to hear the Chems fuck about with some tracks off Dig Your Own Hole - but I don't know... I regard that album as sacrosanct just as it is. But I do wonder if they would listen to it and think in a hindsight-is-20/20 sort of way, "oh man, I wonder... we should've maybe panned a little bit with that, or brought that sound up to the forefront." We'll probably never know though, the Chems aren't known for moving backward!



You're right about Coachella feeling like a rollercoaster ride. I was listening to that set on headphones for the first time last night, and I kept thinking how that show was the ultimate rollercoaster!

whirlygirl Escribi�:

Anyway, it would be interesting to hear the Chems fuck about with some tracks off Dig Your Own Hole - but I don't know... I regard that album as sacrosanct just as it is. But I do wonder if they would listen to it and think in a hindsight-is-20/20 sort of way, "oh man, I wonder... we should've maybe panned a little bit with that, or brought that sound up to the forefront." We'll probably never know though, the Chems aren't known for moving backward!



You're right about Coachella feeling like a rollercoaster ride. I was listening to that set on headphones for the first time last night, and I kept thinking how that show was the ultimate rollercoaster!

No, I agree, I wouldn't actually want them to go back and redo DYOH, but I can imagine what it would be like and I think it frightens me.



I've only listened to the Coachella set on my comp b/c I've been too poor to afford both beer and blank CD-Rs, so beer won. :( Thursday is payday, though and it will be a Chemical night for driving.

i got the DYOH album today, i have listened to most of the songs already but not in Album format its a really good album!.. it would be good for them to do some mixes.. theyre did a real good mix, delik .. i listened to song of the siren for the first time a while back and realised that delik was a remix.. i thought delik was an actual song like get yourself high or something.



its always nice to find surprises within music..especailly The chems

Delik is actually a remix of Life is Sweet, not Song to the Siren, FYI.

aye right enuf it is..



theres a song of the siren mix sittin about somewhere....

unless its one of those kazaa mess abouts

hey anType i've got a question concerning the PTB japan release. Do you know what's the bonus track on that album, i'm sure it's been discussed here somewhere but can't figuring out and. On Amazon the idiots don't say what's the special thing on it . . . so please let me know.

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I've been listening to all the albums back to back just recently and it appears to me that one album isn't better than the other. Exit planet dust is still such a good and solid album but so different than for example Come with us.

There is a very good sense of growth going from album to album. When I listened to the later 3 albums for the first time (Surrender a bit, Come with us very much, Push the button much) I was thinking: "mmmm ok?", but know when I've heard them alot of times I am thinking: "OOOhhhh OK!! I get it know." Surface to air is an excellent example of that. It really sounds like the Chems in the future.

It's like Tom and Ed are way ahead of us the listeners. It's like they are saying: "So you don't like it now? Just give it a few more go's and I'll talk to you in a couple of months."

Joslyn Escribi�:

"So you don't like it now? Just give it a few more go's and I'll talk to you in a couple of months."

I have it for a couple of months now and my opinion still hasn't changed yet...

and what's still your opinion???



Damn good, i guess . .. hehe

anType Escribi�:

it's GIANT, the Believe b-side. nothing exclusive about it nowadays

so you mean it isn't worth buying the japan version?