Yes, the legendary threads such as this one have magically been healed. So now we can go back and read all of our past exploits, and hang our heads in shame especially for those posts that were made under the influence. :P

Anyway, I had a brief conversation with a neighbor a couple of weeks ago and I just had to giggle. One of them is a girl, she's real young (18) but she seems sweet and kind enough. She started talking about shrooms and acid and doing peyote out in the desert, and how she was nervous about doing peyote again because she hates vomiting. I just sort of nodded and let her talk. It's been a loooong time since I've been off my gourd so I had nothing to add of great importance - I'm a bit tired and getting too old to talk drug shop with teh kiddies anyway - so I think she may have taken my being quiet as a sort of disapproval of her actions (I really don't give a crap one way or another, quite frankly, as long as she doesn't get hurt or hurt others in the process). So anyhow, she says "Well I'm a spiritual person, and so that's why I take hallicinogenic drugs" and it was so difficult to not laugh at how silly that sounded. Only because I really think it shows a person's naivety when they 1.) say they are spiritual (why would you even feel the need to say that?) and 2.) justify their drug use by saying that getting loaded makes them more spiritual.

I mean, no offense to the indiginous folk who do use drugs on their monitored vision quests and what not, and I'm not denying that being in such a state might make one perceive they are having some deep, meaningful and spiritual experience. But why don't people in western cultures just admit they take drugs because they like the way it makes them feel - because really at any age, getting off on drugs regardless of having an earth shatteringly spiritual experience is all just a clinical study if you think about it.

Blah.

If taking hallucinogens makes you spiritual, that makes me the fucking Pope.

God bless you, Pope Stash.

@Whirls--Can't it be both? I think some of the wisest words I've ever heard espoused regarding drug use come from the front man of Tool, Maynard James Keenan, which seem to be exactly what you're talking about:

"People just taking the chemicals and diving in without having any kind of preparation about what they're about to experience tend to have no frame of reference, so they're missing everything flying by and all these new perspectives. It's just a waste. They reach a little bit of spiritual enlightenment, but they end up going, 'Well, now I need that drug to get back there again.' The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug."

In the beginning of my psychedelic adventures, I took those words seriously, and feel like I've definitely benefited from not relying on drugs to be spiritual. You had an appropriate reaction, though, to someone telling you they're "very spiritual"; because you're right in that spiritual people don't need to say they're spiritual: you can sense their energy just being in their presence.

On an interesting side note, I had a conversation with Alexis the other day about spirituality, and I thought it was an interesting idea that the existence of our creator resided most in people's conversations about it. Every existential exploration I've encountered with other people, I've always felt... something... was happening there. Anyway, more on that later.

Argh, I guess I opened a can of worms because I find it very difficult to talk about spirituality publically and it's not something I casually discuss because a.) it really is a personal thing and b.) I'm not so sure people want to hear/read my boring ass drivel. But anyhow - since the ball is in my court, I do believe that some self perceived spiritual enlightenment can be reached using drugs, as I said "I'm not denying that being in such a state might make one perceive they are having some deep, meaningful and spiritual experience." Of course taking drugs can open the window to what is self perceived to be, well, spiritual or enlightening. Understanding, love, empathy, being in awe of nature or human presence. With respect to drugs, I saw an interesting interview (I think it was from a Donahue show of all things) where a woman dying of cancer talked about using ecstasy and her outlook on the drug - and how it helped her cope with the inevitable and make peace with it, herself and others - her story wasn't necessarily astounding but nontheless it offered a different and very human and clinical perspective that was intriguing. And even rather touching. Anyhow. I think there are some pearls of wisdom in the Keenan quote but I don't view that as gospel by any stretch because I believe there is no 'trick' whether drug related or otherwise, or rule to spirituality as there will always be the eternal debate that spirituality is all really just a state of mind. And there are countless people who are no doubt spiritual in many aspects who got to that point of enlightenment without using mind altering substances. I've always just seen spirituality as something intensely personal that just 'is' regardless of how it came to be. Everyone's got a freakin' story. ;) And life experiences and circumstances (no matter how they are achieved or perceived) shape a person's perceived sense spirituality.

But that's just it. With regard to a person's self perceived sense of spirituality - I can't help but think spirituality is often a term that is thrown around too loosely, and in terms of the subject matter at hand (drugs) the whole "I trip out because I'm spiritual" just feels so aloof and naive. My neighbors aren't shamans, neither the hell am I and wouldn't pretend to be, and I highly doubt the Dali Lama walks around talking about how spiritual he is. And I've never honestly met someone who has taken their first hit of acid honestly and truly thinking they were going to meet Jesus or [insert -diety- here].

I've done enough drugs to know that yes, for a brief period of time (usually at the peak) I did feel as though, yeah, I'd reached a state of nirvana and really did feel during those moments I'd come out the other end a different more enlightened person than I was before. Whether or not that happened is not the point, nor is it anyone else's business as the experiences are my own... But as enjoyable, exciting and downright fun drug taking is physically, clinically and mentally, it's not the end all, be all to a person's spiritual existance that so many people make it out to be. And I find such 'spiritual' justifications of drug use to be... oh, I don't know. A bit silly and naive.

I definitely see your point. Using psuedo-spirituality to mask a drugged-out lifestyle is completely inexcusable.

I've learned a lot from certain drugs, ketamine in particular, but I certainly wouldn't attempt to use that as justification for chronic use of drugs. I do what I do for pleasure, by and large. Educational bonuses are just that: bonuses.

Whether or not this learning is spiritual I suppose is dependent on a person's worldview. I don't look at it, in my case, as particularly spiritual but I certainly try to learn as much as possible about myself through my efforts.

Also, don't dis the cheesy 18 year olds too much... none of my real friends want to come over and do whippets and watch Surrender synch up to Shrek anymore :(

^ Awww... well, with regards to the 'let's see if this synchs up to Surrender' game, you can always count on me since that's sort of our little hobby, hahaha. Unless you know something I don't and we're not friends anymore. ;)

gawd no!

As for the spirtuality thing, I don't believe in spirits, but I do believe in Chems :D

I needed to beliiieeeve in spirits...

I believe in spirits. Vodka, gin, tequila...

I didn't drink too much last night, but I didn't have dinner.... so all day I've felt like "a pig shat in my head" grr. It's really not about how much you drink, but more about how much you eat to counter it. grumble grumble.

I'm so fucking stoked. My 18 and 19 year old neighbors are making a trip up Mendocino way, and bringing back opium and pure powdered MDMA.

They annoyed mia slightly because they kept asking me to get beer for them and bumming smokes, but if they make it back on sunday with a drug I haven't gotten to enjoy in 16 years, all is forgiven. A buddy of mine even has an antique chinese opium pipe he's gonna bring down. We'll chase the dragon and watch Alice in Wonderland.

I'll be picking up some powdered MDMA capsules from my dealer soon enough for a good bunch of us to roll on at Simian Mobile Disco. I'm going to be flying up and I'll have to use FedEx to ship them up to my girlfriend before taking the flight.

Ooh, the show and the rolls give me quite the good feeling already... :D

this sounds like a rockin good time eh?

Oh yeah--a good number of people are going to be rolling at the show here in SF. Do you want me to pick you up one?

hmmm, I think I'll be good. I'm high on life.. and Robitussin.

BTW, does BART go near your neck of the woods?

No, but it does stop near the venue. Same place we saw Soulwax.

hmm, i was considering that, but actually I'd probably have to worry about it running after the show if they go on at 11 or something..

Not really annoyed as the neighbors are nice enough - they're young and free spirited and mean no harm - but I think it's a bit reckless for old folk with responsibilities to be pimpin beer and smokes for a bunch of underagers in exchange for party favors to brag about on a public forum.

I'll sit this one out and be the reality man.