http://downingstreetmemo.com/

Signed the petition 8).

Regardless of peoples opnions on Bush and Blair, it needed to be done, even if there wasnt weapons of mass destruction, there was still plenty of bad things happening that have now been ended since the war in iraq.

So we can expect a future war on Zimbabwe, North Korea, Iran and Syria then? Bad things are going on there too.

mc marsh Escribi�:

So we can expect a future war on Zimbabwe, North Korea, Iran and Syria then? Bad things are going on there too.

Thats very true, its not just in Iraq and other so called 'rogue' states should be dealt with to benefit the innocent people.



Overall I belive Iraq and the world in genral will benefit from Saddam being to rid of. The people have freedom of speach now and are allowed to vote in elections that do not just contain one candidate.

Yes, but would you go as far as to kill some innocent bystanders to deliver the so-called freedoms?

the united states

soundertow Escribi�:

Yes, but would you go as far as to kill some innocent bystanders to deliver the so-called freedoms?

Innocent people were getting killed anyway, look at Ken Bigley, he was innocent and just doing his job. Saddam was killing them!



Yes its a shame that in the process of liberation some innocent people died, however when you look at the wider scale more people have benefitted than not.

soundertow Escribi�:

Yes, but would you go as far as to kill some innocent bystanders to deliver the so-called freedoms?

correction: the united states would. a proposal is already in the works to cut contracted civilian military positions and close bases largely supported and maintained by the civilian population. the closing of roughly 188 bases will produce an estimated 'savings' of 49 billion dollars over 20 years. the american media has put an economic spin on the proposal, but there is no doubt that this is only an aggressive effort to fund additional action in iraq (iran and north korea).

Yes, but would you go as far as to kill some innocent bystanders to deliver the so-called freedoms?



If yes, we have very different views on how to live in this world.

If not, can you ask anyone else to do it for you?

I'll have another go at this. This is directed to everybody on these forums but especially to the supporters of wars of offensive origin.



Would you go as far as to kill some innocent bystanders to deliver the so-called freedoms?



If yes, we have very different views on how to live in this world.

If not, you can't really ask anyone else to do it for you, can you?

soundertow Escribi�:

Yes, but would you go as far as to kill some innocent bystanders to deliver the so-called freedoms?



If yes, we have very different views on how to live in this world.

If not, can you ask anyone else to do it for you?

No i wouldnt intentionally kill innocent bystanders, but I also wouldnt of not done anything about Saddam.



I see your point, its terrible that innocent people died though the liberation, but these people were being killed even before USA were involved. The intention was never to kill innocent bystanders, but to get rid of saddam.



What other options were avaible? Should we of let the problem in iraq resolve itself and leave evil Saddam to carry on his harsh regrime. Would you allow innocent people to die, or actually done something about it?

While removing Saddam was undoubtedly a good thing, Bush et al were far too eager to use military force. We likely wouldn't be discussing this if they'd made more than token gestures at diplomacy and building a genuine international consensus (yeah, I know, the selfish Germans, French, Russians, and Chinese are always standing in the way.... whatever... that's a copout...).

i cant get the link to work :?

If I weren't so wiped out and had more time, I'd pipe in with my long winded anti-war opinions that nobody who was here in 2003 wants to read again. :/



Perhaps another time.

ACIDCHILDREN Escribi�:

mc marsh Escribi�:

So we can expect a future war on Zimbabwe, North Korea, Iran and Syria then? Bad things are going on there too.

Thats very true, its not just in Iraq and other so called 'rogue' states should be dealt with to benefit the innocent people.



Overall I belive Iraq and the world in genral will benefit from Saddam being to rid of. The people have freedom of speach now and are allowed to vote in elections that do not just contain one candidate.

First off, a group called 'Project for the New American Century', of which Paul Wolfwitz and Richard Perle, as well as other high placed members of the Bush adminstration are members, have been advocating the invasion of Iraq not just since 2002, but as early as 1996. It's not conspiracy bullshit, you can read their whole agenda online at their website.



There is no freedom of speech in Iraq. The only television and radio stations in Iraq are paid for by the US government, and the United States has shut down every opposition newspaper in the country. The candidates in their recent 'election' were all pre-screened by the United States. If they had been truly free elections, Iraq would have a muslim theocracy right now.



The 'mass graves' found in Iraq date to the Iran/Iraq war, when the United States was supplying Saddam with chemical and biological weapons. The blood of the Kurds that were slaughtered is as much on Bush Seniors hands as it is on Saddams. Right up to the first gulf war, he was our bitch. We helped install him to power, we armed him and even fed him intelligence to aid him in his war against Iran because we were so afraid of muslims.



We don't even know how bad things are in Iraq, because even veteren combat reporters are afraid to be there. The only news coming out of Iraq is coming through the US military. Reporters sit in the tiny, barely secure 'green zone', and copy down whatever the US military tells them.



Frankly, I think anyone who supports the war in Iraq is culpable for the death of innocents, and a fair and justified target for anyone who feels like martyring themselves.



9-11? After what we've done to Iraq, after we re-elected GWB, we deserve 10 times worse.



how did I get on to 9-11? Well, while I'm at it, remember, the CIA, when Bush Senior was the director, funded and trained Osama Bin Ladin.



Anyway, I have to go now, because 'Lost in Translation' is on TV, and Scarlett Johansons pink-panty clad ass just made me lose my train of thought.

toomuch'stash Escribi�:

Frankly, I think anyone who supports the war in Iraq is culpable for the death of innocents, and a fair and justified target for anyone who feels like martyring themselves.



9-11? After what we've done to Iraq, after we re-elected GWB, we deserve 10 times worse.



how did I get on to 9-11? Well, while I'm at it, remember, the CIA, when Bush Senior was the director, funded and trained Osama Bin Ladin.

Do you not think that the benefits of this conflict outweight the negative things that are happening? Even if I support the war how does that mean Im supporting innocent death, doesnt supporting saddam or saying that America deserved 9-11 much worse also support innocent deaths?

ACIDCHILDREN Escribi�:

toomuch'stash Escribi�:

Frankly, I think anyone who supports the war in Iraq is culpable for the death of innocents, and a fair and justified target for anyone who feels like martyring themselves.



9-11? After what we've done to Iraq, after we re-elected GWB, we deserve 10 times worse.



how did I get on to 9-11? Well, while I'm at it, remember, the CIA, when Bush Senior was the director, funded and trained Osama Bin Ladin.

Do you not think that the benefits of this conflict outweight the negative things that are happening? Even if I support the war how does that mean Im supporting innocent death, doesnt supporting saddam or saying that America deserved 9-11 much worse also support innocent deaths?

Because the reasons they told us we went to war in Iraq are complete bullshit. And it's not up to you or me to decide if 15,000 innocent bystanders are worth it, those bystanders should have had a say in the matter.

"Yes, by jolly, GWB, I do say you should kill me while I shop in the local marketplace if it means my people get freedom! What? You mean they don't? They get oppression by a tyrant replaced with military occupation and US economic domination? Well, jolly good! Carry on with the bombs!"

The main reason we attacked Iraq when we did was that Saddam was about to change the pricing standards for his oil from dollars to euros. It was too big of a threat to the US economy.