Nothing but pain

Well this discussion has certainly been lively!

Criticizing the music, expecting and wanting more from musicians you care deeply about and expect nothing but the very best, being disappointed with the perceived direction of the Chemical Brothers evolution - fair enough, point taken. It is good to discuss these things I think, and a healthy dose of criticism keeps things in check. And even though there have been times where I totally disagree (not just here, but other threads) I feel this forum should be a safe place for fans - even the ones who are losing or lost their faith - to come and share/discuss and even argue opinions.

But I have to say something because the liklihood of Tom and Ed coming on to the forum to engage in a heated discussion or defend themselves persnally is not very likely. We know Tom and Ed lurk these boards, and they do it not because they are looking for people to stroke their egos 24/7, they do it because they actually are interested what their fans are saying about their music. Good, bad, everything in between. They make music and do what they love but in the end, the people that listen to their music and go to their shows expect a product and they know they have to deliver. I can say, it truly disappoints them when they know they missed the mark. They want to please even their toughest critics - their outspoken and critical fans - because that is the kind of people they are.

The personal jabs are totally unnecessary to get the points and constructive criticism across. I get that it may have been an attempt at humor to take a stab at the old forum joke and Ed's fondness for jerk chicken, perhaps even to get a rise out of those who don't share the same opinions. But it's unfair and uncalled for. Tom is not some arrogant prick riding high off the success of some soundtrack he helped make for a film that came and left theaters in a matter of a couple short weeks. To say he needs to be humbled for that reason is just not right. Tom's not planning on putting out a "4am dj tool with us" solo album. He's got side projects underway, namely producing the Klaxons, and hopefully we will see some more work with fresh new music like he did with I Break Horses. Ed hasn't deserted the team either. Again, another unjust assumption. Ed is furthering his studies and has gone back to university. He loves being a Chemical Brother, and as far as I know, he has no plans to throw in the towel just yet. For someone who has travelled the world several times over and has more than a few epic hits under his belt, this personal pursuit of his is more than admirable. We are between albums and it is great we have some morsels of music to talk about and ponder, even if the music isn't pleasing to every ear. And yeah, it is obvious Ed is dearly missed around these parts. But please, taper down the insults and cut the boys a tiny bit of slack. The argument is clear and succinct without resorting to that kind of thing.

God this wait for a new album is killing us!!

I don't think I've ever mentioned this before but I love you Whirlygirl. You're the reason why everyone posts here in the first place, you're the reason this forum has survived over the years and in a way my every post is dedicated to you. Please don't take this wrong way but I think you've gone too motherly and empathetic towards the Bros. I bet toomuchstash would agree with and understand where i'm coming from. It kills me to take a personal (but not too personal) stab at Tom and Ed. First of all they are way older and wiser than me, this fact alone is enough for me to give them respect and love. Secondly, their music is my muse and my source of inspiration. I would never disrespect like that. But the reason why my criticisms or commentary more like may seem personal is because their music is so personal. I feel strongly about it so the posts come across as too strong. I realize when i'm being a complete idiot and my attempts at humor is nothing more than a lame attempt at trolling and wanting to have a heated discussion going, which I love. My criticism is all genuine though, I like to think and its really a mixture of all the bad chemical tracks I've heard so far, which all have a common motif either too minimal or too progressive for its own good.

This is just a gossip girl phase I'm going thru where I'm trying to start drama. New music like daft punk and such and this summer has me wanting new chemicals.....

And still, we don't have a discussion on an exisitng album or EP but rather about something nebulous and (as yet) imaginary based on a couple of tracks. If, at least, we had gotten some real and exclusively chemical songs, then it would have been fair enough to have a debate on their "new direction" and such. But all we have is Velodrome, Superflash and XTC as a remix. Personally, I liked Superfalsh, especially the way they used it in their live sets. But that's just me.
Other than that, if I don't get more official stuff I can judge on, I'm not willing to further engage in a stock exchange type of speculation where most of the supposed indicators are just mere gutt feelings.

Such strong opinions in here, I like that! Especially since I have not listened to anything from CB since Further. Totally skipped Velodrome, Hanna and now TM/NBP. I sure have a lot of catching up to do.
That said, I'm kinda confused reading your posts. As far as I can gather, isn't TM/NBP Toms side thingy? I mean, not really CB stuff? Should be different from their usual stuff, right?
Now I can't wait to get home from work and hopefully find TM/NBP somewhere on YT and see (hear) what this fuss is all about.

Csar you’ve been here long enough to know how things work around here. 5 songs are enough to make an informed and educated guess on what the new chemicals will sound like? 5 songs, that’s like half the album right there. How many more bits of songs do you need to be speculative? This is the time between albums and this is what we do. So far we haven’t heard anything about the “New” live show , the collaborations or the new album. Ed is trying to further his studies so we know not enough time is spent in the studio with Tom. Its safe to say that Tom is trying to further his musical capabilities in the studio but with the presence of Ed gone, he has taken complete liberty to produce whatever he likes without any filter. Result? Through me and Nothing but pleasure = Mediocre songs which could have been great had Ed been there. Csar, we’ve come too far to give up who we are! You made a commitment to this discussion when you joined in. Nobody forced you, now you must complete the journey and end this conversation until we find a solution to it. My solution? Give up listening to all Chemical Brothers until they make something worthwhile.

chemicalreaction - when did you turn into a shit slipvin?

at least he was funny.

chemicalreaction, on 28 June 2013 - 4:55 PM, said:

Indeed, we've known each other a long time. However, surprisingly it seems like we never really knew each other that good. It is hard for me to respond in a proper way because you have the answer on everything. You know exactly what Ed's doing or not doing, you know that Tom turned into a mediocre musician, hence you know what their next record will sound like. Moreover, you imply that I'm about to give up on my personality (whereever you may got this from defies me). Against this background, there's nothing left for me to contribute to this (future) debate because the verdict has already been rendered. You also seem to ignore things I've said or tend to dramatize them the way you need it which is a tad tiring. Don't get me wrong, it is great that a fan, that you are, gets emotional over one of his most favorite bands and their evolution and who takes a critical look on their work. No problem with that, everybody does that, openly or behind the curtain. But even though I agree with you on the quality of both mentioned tracks, it never led me to such a bitter conclusion of yours. Why? Like I and you, we're waiting for their next studio record, or at least new official chemical brothers material we can honestly judge and discuss. Everything else is just in the realm of speculation and vague projections.
That said, in my eyes your "solution" is foolish. To boycott them by not listening to their past catalogue does nothing constructive. It would be reasonable to boycott a new album if it turned out they way you project. Everything else is just the behavior of a sulky and petulant child who wants to get some attention. I guess, I wouldn't have joined this discussion if you had been more differentiated. But most of the things you said were set as facts beyond any doubt.

*popcorn*

And I must say, I miss slipvin…

I been on the forums for some time now mainly lurking in the dark shadows and reading all the reviews, latest news, dj-sets, when’s the next live show near my town and all that jazz. Oh and when I post my new music. I don’t post much otherwise but I read a lot and I know what’s up. So that’s probably the reason you might not know much about me. Csar, this is a time between albums so all we can do as fans is speculate. I’m trying to connect the dots here, trying to put together pieces of the puzzle to find a solution whereas you think that magically the pieces are going to align themselves and reveal their true nature. Eventually they will but I’m out here predicting the future. I’m at least doing something rather than just sitting here and going…well whatever comes comes, I’m sure its going to be amazing anyway…… Well, What if its not? What if all our fears are realized and Chemical 8 is Nothing but let down? I like to prepare myself for disaster and the eventual disappointment which I clearly see happening but is completely missed on someone like you, Mr. Optimist Man of the Year. I want you come with me and suspend your usual beliefs about the chemical brothers and take a hard, real look into the reality of situation. And there is no rule which states one shall only discuss music when it comes in an album form. It’s a piece of art, you can discuss it whenever and come up with any interpretation you wish. You sound like someone unwilling to open up to this idea.

chemicalreaction, on 29 June 2013 - 7:41 AM, said:

If that was true we would still have 7 beautiful albums to listen to. Stop speculating it is pure non sens. What's the point of jusdging their future based on 3 tracks?

chemicalreaction, on 29 June 2013 - 7:41 AM, said:

See, how words can make the difference?! This is totally legit. I hope you got the gist of what I was aiming at throughout this discussion. It wasn't so much about the content but rather about they way you made your statements. They were framed as inevitable facts. Therefore, it provoked my (chemical) reaction to your first statements (that and the "kind" way of addressing Ed in his birthday thread which I recalled).
We can spaculate, we can express our fears they could adopt a (subjectively) negative or positive course and state our opinions about that. There's nothing wrong with that and has never been the point of my arguments. In fact, that's the reason why we're all here. To share our (diverging or converging) views on everything. Therefore, I think it is in fact good and welcomed that you express your doubts and critique so they can get some insights into the opinions of their fans. Like Whirly said, they sure lurk here from time to time just to get this kind of resonance. There's nothing worse and counterproductive as a shoe-licking we-take-everything type of fandom. That's why I'm really surprised about your recent statements because you should know better - having spent so much time here on the boards.

Apart from that, I really don't know why you look for a 'solution'. A solution for what? Are you gonna go visit Tom's studio to show him how it's done? To give some creative advice? The only solution I see for you is to wait until their next release and decide then what to do. Either you'll turn your back on them and leave planet dust or not. It's as simple as that. If you like to do that in advance, sure, go for it. But, please, accept that this kind of reaction may confuse some people.
I personally am neither optimistic or pessimistic about their next album because I really don't know what to expect ("I’m sure its going to be amazing anyway…" has never been my mindset). I've listened to some new material played in their dj sets and it sounded sort of promising. So yeah, I'm sitting here and wait for it come my way. When it's there, I can start discussing their new work, their style, their whatever it might be. That said, I don't need to be prepared for anything. All I know and all I've experienced over the years is that I can't predict this band. They always surprised me, most of the time in a positive way, sometimes negatively. But that's why I'm a fan of theirs in the first place. They attract me with most of their unique ideas and sounds. It's nothing I specifically look for or demand (because I'm a fan now) or think it's a natural law. No, it's because they've done it over and over. If they cease to do that, I'm with Bouh and keep on listening to their past stuff. They sure give a rat's ass whether I do or don't do that (so much for "I’m at least doing something rather than just ..."). If they kept on delivering bad albums in the future, then I might probably share your today's opinion as well. But that's conditional, depending on future events.

The way I see it at the moment is that there's a high potential for them to fail in your opinion because you kind of want it to be that way. I, instead, like to keep my ears open, and if it's bad, then it's bad and I'm pissed (and vice versa). But maybe you may like what you'll going to hear and all of that big "ifs" fall into oblivion. Who knows? Only time will tell.

chemicalreaction, on 29 June 2013 - 7:12 PM, said:

First second, 1:56 min in
http://www.youtube.c...yu8BcU#t=0h1m57

mippio, on 28 June 2013 - 9:39 AM, said:

RIGHT?!?!

Csar, on 29 June 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

Love the bassline on Through Me and the vocal sample on Nothing But Pleasure!

chemicalreaction, on 29 June 2013 - 7:41 AM, said:

What fears ? "Our" fears ? I don't have any fears, you do.

Ben_j, on 01 July 2013 - 1:27 PM, said:

Denial is not just a river in Africa. Anyone who has taken a basic college psychology course will tell you that each one of you has some sort of psychological disfunction. A chemical imbalance if you will. The recent behavior of some of the forumers can be clinically diagnosed and some sort of disorder could be attributed to it. If you take a look at Kubler-Ross model of grief (death or loss), you'll see that each one of you are at a different stage of it. Here's Wikipedia explaining this phenomenon in a much more detail. " The Kübler-Ross model, commonly referred to as the "five stages of grief", is a hypothesis introduced by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross^[1] and says that when a person is faced with the reality of impending death or other extreme, awful fate, he or she will experience a series of emotional stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance." In our case we are faced with the reality of impending awful chemical fate, the next album. It's not hard to deduce from the current sounds coming from the chemical headquarters that the future chemical brothers release would be a big flop. Couple of songs might save it some face but overall it would be a humiliating and an embarrassing loss which will inevitably turn off all the current fans and chances of having new fans will exponentially go down with every release. Some of you are not taking this news well. Csar has shown multiple stages of this model, denial about the existence of anything wrong and being overly optimistic, some anger towards me (I'm just the middle man, don't shoot the messenger), bargaining when he says "well can't cant speculate just yet but I sort of agree with you about the quality of these two tracks". Eventually you'll see this bargaining will lead to depression from having the truth sink in and then finally acceptance. Then you'll realize the chemical reaction was right all along. Same thing happened with other forumers, calling me names like "shit silpvin" and just general hostility towards me, clearly in the "anger" phase. The sooner you'll realize where you stand the sooner we can treat you. The choice is yours.